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Buyer Beware of PMA wind turbines

I recently had a reader complain about the performance he was seeing out of his PMA (Permanent Magnet Alternator) wind turbines he purchased from Missouri Wind and Solar.  He said their units were not producing close to the power that the company claimed and he said he was getting zero support from the company.  His videos are below:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aBhYCl0sH8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CuuEzSYODg

And so after doing research, I realized he wasn't the only one having problems with their PMA wind turbines from Missouri Wind and Solar.

After doing a little of looking around on YouTube, I found this hilarious video of a PMA wind turbine and a guy who thinks he is producing a lot of power, but really isn't producing much power at all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUjKyz9L7-o

He's excited about 3 Amps, but the voltage is only at 14 V, which means he's producing less than 75 Watts, barely enough to power 1 incandescent light bulb? But this amperage is only instantaneous, and it usually hangs around zero.  So maybe over the 3 minute video he has produced enough energy to keep a bulb on for about 10 seconds!!!

Missouri Wind and Solar tries to impress people with a graph of power output vs. RPM, but users don't need to see RPM, they need to see power output vs. wind speed, or at least a table showing how the RPM's vary vs. wind speed?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIzpbr520N8

In the above video, Jeff keeps saying "look at all those Amps" but remember, you don't care about instantaneous Amps, you care about total energy produced, which is Amps multiplied by Volts multiplied by time (for more info on this, check out our post on What is a kWh).  In the video, at about 18 mph, there are 3 turbines connected to produce a max of 125 A at about 15 V for a total of 1.875 kW.  Since there are 3 turbines connected this comes out to an average of 625 Watts per turbine.  But remember, these are just during the wind gusts.

Over the 3 minute period of time that Jeff is looking at his Volt and Amp meters, I would guess that the average Voltage is about 13 V and average Amperage is about 30 Amps (and that is being generous).  So if we assume these were the averages, his 3 turbines were producing about 390 Watts, or 130 Watt per turbine.

Maybe it's just me, but this is not that impressive.

This excellent video on YouTube shows why PMA wind turbines just don't live up to their rated claims:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzsV5oV8mvM

Here's the point:  Many of these small wind turbine dealers and promoters will try and impress you by showing you graphs and videos of their turbine's voltage, or amperage when the wind gusts, or how fast they spin, or how many unicorns their turbine can power, but there is only one value you need to be concerned with: Power output vs. Wind Speed.  You then need to consider what the average wind speed is in your location and only then can you decide if a wind turbine makes sense.

You don't care about instantaneous amperage output when the wind gusts.  You care about total power output of the wind turbine, and as I covered in my post on Solar PV vs. Wind Turbines, wind turbines just don't make sense for almost all locations in the U.S. because the average wind speed just isn't high enough.  You don't need gusts of wind, you need steady, strong wind to produce a lot of energy from wind turbines.  Don't get suckered in by "fancy" YouTube clips.

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Comments

so where can i send my Missouri pma to get it either refurbished or checked? I just spent $800 and im hoping its not a complete right off. (my wife would kill me) also is it normal for my battery bank to back-feed 24volts through the hva all the way to the turbine pma? my system is two 3500watt outback grid-tie inverters one outback fx 80 charge controller (currently with no solar panels feeding it) Missouri hva powered by a too weak to register 1500watt pma 12 - 2volt Trojan batteries (24volt bank)
Man, I am embarrassed to say it but he got me too! I replaced the blades on my Windmax with Jeff's Raptor blades. He told me on the phone that I could expect a 35% increase in power in low winds. Guess what America??? I went from getting 1.5 amps in a 10 mph wind with my Windmax to ZERO amps with Jeff's blades. In high winds I got about 15% less power with Jeff's blades compared to the original Windmax blades. Guess what America??? I put my original Windmax blades back on. I told Jeff thru e-mail that his blades gave me less power than the original Windmax blades Guess what America??? Jeff never responded to my e-mail because he already had got my money. From my experience, I have to say that it is true: Missouri wind and solar is a scam scam scam.
Don't! Don't! Don't! Don't! Don't! Don't! Buy Missouri Wind and Solar Products ive invested a lot of money to build a wind power system, i am pleased i only bought 1 to try it out as i was going to buy a lot more,to find i was only getting 1 amp at 25-30MPH winds and it was a waste of money & Jeff said it was a promblem with the PMA and would send me a new one but as for you all know hes a lier & please don't buy it's a SCAM!
I got ripped off by Jeff too. Missouri Wind and Solar SUCKS. LIES LIES LIES. I talked to Bob at Thermodyne and he stopped selling Jeff parts and that's when things fell apart for Jeff. Jeff is on the hot seat now since he does not know s*#& about blade design or PMA's so he is just faking it all. He use to be a Thermodyne dealer and went "ROGUE" Without the genuine parts from Thermodyne Jeff has no clue as to making the thing really work. I love my two Hornets I got from Thermodyne (hydrogenappliances.com) but the new turbines Jeff is inventing from original Thermodyne copies just SUCK SO BAD!!!!!! Well, I got screwed too, the Raptor PMA sucks and the new raptor blades do not rev up as fast as the Thermodyne blades do :(
Who are you trying to Eddy Sanders, or should i say Bob, owner of Thermodyne, Hydrogen Appliances in California. Check it out people Eddy Sanders,Larry Amis,Bill Westly and Marvin are DEFINETLY BOB GREENE,OWNER OF THERMODYNE. He has trashed Missouri Wind and Jeff over and over then tells us his beautiful exsperience with Hydrogen appliance.com. All these alias’s say Bob has to fix Jeffs junk.He gives you exact percentages, part numbers and hydrogenappliances.com over and over. Thermodyne, Hydrogen Appliances and qaz661 on ebay is Bob Greene, the owner of all 3. Bob sells JUNK. Here’s my exsperinece with Hornet blades.I bought 6 blades and hub for my cabin in Montana. First 40 mph wind and the damn blade hub bent backwards due to it only being 1/8″ thick. The blades hit the tower and shattered sending sharp swords flying everywhere.One embedded itself in my wood shed which took everything i had to pull it out. Thank god no one got killed.The Hornet blades are not carbon fibre!! there recycled black brittle plastic. I went to the Raptor Generation 4 blades from Missouri Wind And Solar. 7 blades and a hub. the hub is 3/16″ thick. So far 70 mph winds and below zero temps and there still going strong.There light grey in color. They definetly are good looking blades. Jeff made a video of them being made in the Missouri factory. Jeff and his wife at Missouri Wind have answered all my dumb questions on the phone and my emails. To much BS is being said about them on this forum and i mean BS. Jeff, my hats off to you and MWAS for all the informative videos you put out on wind turbines and solar panels on YouTube at jeffmolly1 . Keep up the good work.
Who are you trying to kid Bill Westly, or should i say Bob, owner of Thermodyne, Hydrogen Appliances in California. Check it out people Eddy Sanders,Larry Amis,Bill Westly and Marvin are DEFINETLY BOB GREENE,OWNER OF THERMODYNE. He has trashed Missouri Wind and Jeff over and over then tells us his beautiful exsperience with Hydrogen appliance.com. All these alias’s say Bob has to fix Jeffs junk.He gives you exact percentages, part numbers and hydrogenappliances.com over and over. Thermodyne, Hydrogen Appliances and qaz661 on ebay is Bob Greene, the owner of all 3. Bob sells JUNK. Here’s my exsperinece with Hornet blades.I bought 6 blades and hub for my cabin in Montana. First 40 mph wind and the damn blade hub bent backwards due to it only being 1/8″ thick. The blades hit the tower and shattered sending sharp swords flying everywhere.One embedded itself in my wood shed which took everything i had to pull it out. Thank god no one got killed.The Hornet blades are not carbon fibre!! there recycled black brittle plastic. I went to the Raptor Generation 4 blades from Missouri Wind And Solar. 7 blades and a hub. the hub is 3/16″ thick. So far 70 mph winds and below zero temps and there still going strong.There light grey in color. They definetly are good looking blades. Jeff made a video of them being made in the Missouri factory. Jeff and his wife at Missouri Wind have answered all my dumb questions on the phone and my emails. To much BS is being said about them on this forum and i mean BS. Jeff, my hats off to you and MWAS for all the informative videos you put out on wind turbines and solar panels on YouTube at jeffmolly1 . Keep up the good work.
If you have bought from Misery Wind and solar. If you paid through paypal. You might get a refund. If nothing else file a claime so Paypal know what is going on. Thanks Chris for reposting this. People need to know what kind of company this is.
The rotor core Jeff uses now is a joke. It puts out 65% less power then the original HYDROGENAPPLIANCES.COM model # SC Super-Core models. To get a "JEFF MADE" junker PMA fixed up email Bob at Thermodyne. After repair I got double the wattage. I'm finally very happy now. Jeff at MISERY WIND and SOLAR also hang up on me 7 times when he heard the sound of my complaining voice,,, &%@&%*@!@!
The rotor core that Jeff at Missouri Wind manufactures is definetly superior to the junk being sold by Bob at Thermodyne, Hydrogen appliances or as he is known on ebay qaz661.Say Larry you sure do make sure everyone knows thermodynes part numbers and web address.65% less? Who are you kidding with this BS about MWAS, Your definetly Bob at Thermodyne, not Larry Amis. You have made several of the same posts above with hydrogen appliances web address.Your other post under Eddy Sanders is also bogus, Eddy Sanders is Bob, owner of Thermodyne, Hydrogen Appliance in California.
i want to but 2.1mkw wind tubine, is it good for investment?

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